Identification 209

Identification 209
认同

Jacques Lacan
雅克 拉康

2.5.62 XVIII 239
Before trying to examine the place of this discourse I would like
some of the people whom I saw with different interrogative,
expectant expressions, expressions which became more precise at
one or other turning point of Mme Aulagnier’s discourse, to
simply indicate the suggestions, the thoughts produced in them at
one or other detour of this discourse as a sign that this
discourse has been heard. I only regret one thing: it was read.
This will provide me with supports on which I will be able to
accentuate my commentary more precisely.

在我尝试检查这个辞说的位置,我想要我看见的某些人们,仅是指出这些暗示。因为他们具有不同的质疑,期待的表达,变得更加准确的表达,在奥拉尼尔女士的某个转捩点。我想要他们指示这些思想,他们身上产生的思想,在辞说的某个迂回,作为是这个辞说已经被人听见的讯号。我仅是遗憾一件事情:这个辞说被阅读。这将供应我一些支持,我将能够更加准确地强调我的评论。

M Audouard
奥道德先生

What struck me by way of association, is really the clinical
example that you brought in at the end of your presentation, it
is this sentence of the patient about the word which he compares
to a wheel which different people never see the same part of.
This seems to me to illuminate everything that you said and to
open up – I really don’t know why – a whole broadening of the
themes that you have presented.

自由联想给我印象深刻的,确实是这个临床的例子。在你的演讲结束时带给我们的例子。就是病人将这个字词比喻为轮子的这个句子,不同的人们从来没看见的轮子的相同部分。我觉得这启示你们所说的某件事情,并且打开—我确实并不知道为什么—并且打开你们呈现的各种主题的扩充。

I think I have more or less understood the meaning of the
presentation; I am not used to schizophrenics, but as regards
neurotics and perverts anxiety in so far as it cannot be the
object of symbolisation because it is precisely the mark that
symbolisation has not been able to take place and to symbolise
oneself is really to disappear into a sort of non-symbolisation
from which the summons of anxiety comes at every instant.

我认为我已经相当理解呈现的意义。我并没有习惯于精神分裂,但是关于神经症与倒错症的焦虑,因为它不可能成象征的客体,因为确实就是这个记号,成为象征始终不能够发生。让自己成为象征确实就是消失进入一种非-象征。从这个非象征,焦虑的召唤随时都会来到。

It is obviously something extremely rich but which perhaps on a certain
logical plane would demand some clarifications. How in fact is
it possible that this fundamental experience which is in a way
the negativism of the word should come to be symbolised and what
happens then in order that from this central hole there should
spring forth something that we have to understand. Indeed how is
the word born? What is the origin of the signifier in this
precise case of anxiety in so far as it cannot express itself.
For anxiety in so far as it expresses itself? There is perhaps
there a movement which is not unrelated with this wheel which
turns, which would perhaps need to be made a little clearer and
more precise.

这显而易见是件极端的事情,但是或许在某个逻辑的层面,会要求某些的澄清。事实上,这如何是可能的?这个基本的经验,某方面是文字的否定,竟然逐渐成为象征。那么要发生怎样的事情,才有我们必须理解的某件东西,从这个中央的空洞突然冒出来。的确,这个文字如何诞生?在焦虑的这个准确的情况,这个能指的起源是什么?因为它无法表达它自己。当能指表达它自己时,对于焦虑,那是什么?或许在那里,有某个运动,跟这个转动的轮子并非不相关。这个运动或许需要被表达得更加清楚与更加准确。

2.5.62 XVIII 240

M Vergotte
维格特先生
I was wondering if there were not two sorts of anxiety: Mme
Aulagnier spoke of castration-anxiety: the subject is afraid that
it’s going to be taken away from him and that he will be
forgotten as a subject, here is the disappearance of the subject
as such; but I was wondering if there were not an anxiety where
the subject refuses to be subject, if for example in certain
phantasies he wants on the contrary to hide the hole or the lack.
In Mme Aulagnier’s clinical example the subject refuses his body
because the body reminds him of his desire and his lack; in the
example of castration anxiety you said rather: the subject is
afraid that he will be misrecognised as subject. An anxiety has
therefore the two possible meanings: or he refuses to be subject.
There is also the other anxiety where he has, for example in
claustrophobia, that there he is no longer a subject, that on the
contrary he is closed in, that he is in a closed world where
desire does not exist; he can be in a state of anxiety before his
desire and also before the absence of desire.

我想要知道是否存在着两种焦虑。奥拉尼尔女士谈论到阉割-焦虑:主体害怕阉割-焦虑将会从她身上被夺走,他将会被忘记作为主体。在此就是主体自身的消失。但是我想要知道,是否有某种焦虑,在那里,主体拒绝成为主体。譬如,假如在某些的幻影里,他相反地想要隐藏这个空洞或这个欠缺。在奥拉尼尔女士的临床的例子,主体拒绝他的身体,因为身体让他想起他的欲望与他的欠缺。在阉割焦虑的例子,相反地,你说:主体害怕他将会被误认作为主体。焦虑因此拥有两个可能的意义:一种就是,他拒绝成为主体。也还有另外一种焦虑,在那里,譬如在幽闭恐惧症,他不再是主体。相反地,他被封闭在里面,他处于封闭的世界,在那里,欲望并不存在。他能够处于焦虑的状态,在他的欲望之前,也在他的欲望的缺席之前。

Aulagnier
奥拉尼尔女士

Do you not think that when one refuses to be a subject it is
precisely because one has the impression that for the Other one
cannot be subject except by paying for it with ones castration, I
do not believe that the refusal to be subject is to be really a
subject.

你们难道不认为,当我们拒绝成为主体时,那确实是因为我们拥有这个印象:对于大他者,我们无法成为主体,除了凭借用我们自己的阉割付给它代价。我并不相信,拒绝成为主体,将确实成为一个主体。

Lacan
拉康

We are right at the heart of the problem. You see immediately
here the point at which one becomes confused. I find that this
discourse is excellent in so far as the handling of certain of
the notions that we find here has allowed Mme Aulagnier to
highlight, in a fashion which would not have been possible for
her otherwise, several dimensions of her experience. I am going
to take up again something that appeared remarkable to me in what
she produced. I say right away that this discourse seemed to me
to remain at a half-way point.

我们正处于这个难题的核心。你们在此立即看出这个点。我们变成混乱的这个点。我发现,这个辞说非常优秀,因为我们在此发现的一些观念的处理,让奥拉尼尔女士能够强调,否则她本来无法使用这样的方式,凭借她的经验的好几个维度。我正要再次探讨某件对我而言是似乎引人注目的东西,在她所产生的东西里。我立即说,我觉得这个辞说始终保持着半途的点。

It is indeed a sort of
conversion, you should have no doubt about it, that I am trying
to obtain from you through my teaching, which is not, God knows,
after all such a unique pretention in history that for it to be
seen as exorbitant. But it is certain that a whole part of Mme
Aulagnier’s discourse and very precisely the passage at which,
with an eye to intelligibility, her own as well as that of those
to whom she was speaking, to whom she believed she was speaking,
she goes back to formulae which are the ones against which I warn
you, I direct you, I put you on your guard, and not simply
because in my case it is a sort of tic or aversion, but because
their coherence with something which must be radically abandoned
(22) always shows itself every time they are used, even
knowingly.

这确实是一种转变。你们对它应该无可置疑。我正在尝试通过我的教学,从你们那里获得,天晓得,我的教学毕竟并不是在历史上如此独特的伪装,为了让它被看待作为是不可思议。但是确定的是,奥拉尼尔女士的辞说的整个的部分,确实地,就在这个段落,为了让人理解,她自己的辞说,以及她针对的那些人们的辞说,她相信她针对他们言说的那些人们。她回到那个公式,我警告过你们小心那个公式。我引导你们。我要你们小心提防。不仅因为在我的情况,那是一种痛痒,或厌恶。而是因为它们跟某件一定要被扬弃的东西的一贯性。这个一贯性总是显示它自己,每当它们被使用时,即使是明知故犯。

雄伯译
32hsiung@pchome.com.tw
https://springhero.wordpress.com

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s


%d bloggers like this: