Identification 209

Identification 209

Jacques Lacan
雅克 拉康

2.5.62 XVIII 239
Before trying to examine the place of this discourse I would like
some of the people whom I saw with different interrogative,
expectant expressions, expressions which became more precise at
one or other turning point of Mme Aulagnier’s discourse, to
simply indicate the suggestions, the thoughts produced in them at
one or other detour of this discourse as a sign that this
discourse has been heard. I only regret one thing: it was read.
This will provide me with supports on which I will be able to
accentuate my commentary more precisely.


M Audouard

What struck me by way of association, is really the clinical
example that you brought in at the end of your presentation, it
is this sentence of the patient about the word which he compares
to a wheel which different people never see the same part of.
This seems to me to illuminate everything that you said and to
open up – I really don’t know why – a whole broadening of the
themes that you have presented.


I think I have more or less understood the meaning of the
presentation; I am not used to schizophrenics, but as regards
neurotics and perverts anxiety in so far as it cannot be the
object of symbolisation because it is precisely the mark that
symbolisation has not been able to take place and to symbolise
oneself is really to disappear into a sort of non-symbolisation
from which the summons of anxiety comes at every instant.


It is obviously something extremely rich but which perhaps on a certain
logical plane would demand some clarifications. How in fact is
it possible that this fundamental experience which is in a way
the negativism of the word should come to be symbolised and what
happens then in order that from this central hole there should
spring forth something that we have to understand. Indeed how is
the word born? What is the origin of the signifier in this
precise case of anxiety in so far as it cannot express itself.
For anxiety in so far as it expresses itself? There is perhaps
there a movement which is not unrelated with this wheel which
turns, which would perhaps need to be made a little clearer and
more precise.


2.5.62 XVIII 240

M Vergotte
I was wondering if there were not two sorts of anxiety: Mme
Aulagnier spoke of castration-anxiety: the subject is afraid that
it’s going to be taken away from him and that he will be
forgotten as a subject, here is the disappearance of the subject
as such; but I was wondering if there were not an anxiety where
the subject refuses to be subject, if for example in certain
phantasies he wants on the contrary to hide the hole or the lack.
In Mme Aulagnier’s clinical example the subject refuses his body
because the body reminds him of his desire and his lack; in the
example of castration anxiety you said rather: the subject is
afraid that he will be misrecognised as subject. An anxiety has
therefore the two possible meanings: or he refuses to be subject.
There is also the other anxiety where he has, for example in
claustrophobia, that there he is no longer a subject, that on the
contrary he is closed in, that he is in a closed world where
desire does not exist; he can be in a state of anxiety before his
desire and also before the absence of desire.



Do you not think that when one refuses to be a subject it is
precisely because one has the impression that for the Other one
cannot be subject except by paying for it with ones castration, I
do not believe that the refusal to be subject is to be really a



We are right at the heart of the problem. You see immediately
here the point at which one becomes confused. I find that this
discourse is excellent in so far as the handling of certain of
the notions that we find here has allowed Mme Aulagnier to
highlight, in a fashion which would not have been possible for
her otherwise, several dimensions of her experience. I am going
to take up again something that appeared remarkable to me in what
she produced. I say right away that this discourse seemed to me
to remain at a half-way point.


It is indeed a sort of
conversion, you should have no doubt about it, that I am trying
to obtain from you through my teaching, which is not, God knows,
after all such a unique pretention in history that for it to be
seen as exorbitant. But it is certain that a whole part of Mme
Aulagnier’s discourse and very precisely the passage at which,
with an eye to intelligibility, her own as well as that of those
to whom she was speaking, to whom she believed she was speaking,
she goes back to formulae which are the ones against which I warn
you, I direct you, I put you on your guard, and not simply
because in my case it is a sort of tic or aversion, but because
their coherence with something which must be radically abandoned
(22) always shows itself every time they are used, even



Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: